Did the Lord speak to Israel only?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
Did the Lord speak to Israel only? I think the Lord spoke eternal truths for all men who would listen.

The first five books of scripture (The Torah) are for all people, not just the people who accepted God as their God. God is the God of everyone.

“Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Your Torah.” Psalm 119:18

It was Moses who trained Israel in the ways of the Lord after he led them in the wilderness. Many of the people who followed Moses were not born of Abraham but we are told they were a mixed crowd of people. When Moses spoke, it wasn’t to Israel only, but to a mixed crowd who became Israel.

When God gave them special instructions such as to cut foreskin to signify that they belonged to Him, in God’s eyes it wasn’t saying their ancestor was Abraham but to signify they accepted themselves as set apart people who accepted the one true God as their God. The new covenant that changed that was directed to Israel who would listen, but the new covenant is an eternal truth spoken to all who accept the Lord. That is true of all God's words.

Any time the Lord speaks, it is always truth to humans, never as a private message to only certain people. The Lord speaks truth.

When Moses gave his farewell speech, he plainly stated that he spoke to all people on earth.

Deuteronomy 32:1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#2
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#2
Deuteronomy 18:15 (KJV) The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee (Jesus), of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3
Jul 3, 2015
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#3
I wonder how odd it must have or may have seemed to grown men
to have to have their foreskins cut in order to belong or be accepted :unsure:
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#4
Mar 18, 2021
4,975
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#4
Blik said:
Did the Lord speak to Israel only? I think the Lord spoke eternal truths for all men who would listen.

The first five books of scripture (The Torah) are for all people, not just the people who accepted God as their God. God is the God of everyone.

“Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Your Torah.” Psalm 119:18

It was Moses who trained Israel in the ways of the Lord after he led them in the wilderness. Many of the people who followed Moses were not born of Abraham but we are told they were a mixed crowd of people. When Moses spoke, it wasn’t to Israel only, but to a mixed crowd who became Israel.

When God gave them special instructions such as to cut foreskin to signify that they belonged to Him, in God’s eyes it wasn’t saying their ancestor was Abraham but to signify they accepted themselves as set apart people who accepted the one true God as their God. The new covenant that changed that was directed to Israel who would listen, but the new covenant is an eternal truth spoken to all who accept the Lord. That is true of all God's words.

Any time the Lord speaks, it is always truth to humans, never as a private message to only certain people. The Lord speaks truth.

When Moses gave his farewell speech, he plainly stated that he spoke to all people on earth.

Deuteronomy 32:1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.
Click to expand...
God's covenant was with Israel. His word is for everyone. The Law was for Israel. No one was executing Sabbath breakers in China. Israel should have been the nation that testified to the world how good it was to be in covenant with God. In Solomon's time, Israel was the envy of every nation that knew of them. It was all downhill from there.

Knowing God's word, being in covenant with God, even wanting to live righteously, is not enough. This is laid out in Ezekiel 36. What everyone needs is not God's commands but the ability to walk in God's ways. Israel was bound by the Law. It did them no good. All the law does is give people something to rebel against. Lord Jesus came that we might have life. If we focus on that, we will avoid the "Romans 7" trap.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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113
#5
Gideon300 said:
God's covenant was with Israel. His word is for everyone. The Law was for Israel. No one was executing Sabbath breakers in China. Israel should have been the nation that testified to the world how good it was to be in covenant with God. In Solomon's time, Israel was the envy of every nation that knew of them. It was all downhill from there.

Knowing God's word, being in covenant with God, even wanting to live righteously, is not enough. This is laid out in Ezekiel 36. What everyone needs is not God's commands but the ability to walk in God's ways. Israel was bound by the Law. It did them no good. All the law does is give people something to rebel against. Lord Jesus came that we might have life. If we focus on that, we will avoid the "Romans 7" trap.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of this but it doesn't speak to the question of whether God's instructions to Israel were from a race conscious God speaking private statements to only one race or if God wants all people to hear Him.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#6
Jul 3, 2015
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#6
Blik said:
I agree with all of this but it doesn't speak to the question of whether God's instructions to Israel were from a race conscious God speaking private statements to only one race or if God wants all people to hear Him.
Click to expand...
Gideon's second sentence was: His word is for everyone. So that very much does speak to whether or not God wants all people to hear Him. I suppose what you are really trying to say is that what God told Israel thousands of years ago is still binding for us, even though Scripture tells us something different, since the covenants they lived under have been replaced with a newer one with better promises.
 
O

Omegatime

Guest
#7
#7
The lord showed that laws alone one could not attain a holy relationship. Without grace we could not please Him. We needed a savior which came thru Christ Jesus. Yes, God did set apart Israel from all the other nations. As far as the scriptures more are directed to Israel than the gentiles, especially end time events, but we who are grafted in can learn much thru these scriptures. Remember all the first christians were all jews and the message was brought to the gentiles thru jewish believers.

We should be very grateful for the angels who did not keep their proper place have no grace.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#8
Jun 30, 2015
24,824
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#8
Blik said:
Did the Lord speak to Israel only?
Click to expand...
No; He spoke to Adam and Eve, Cain, Enoch, Noah, Terah, Abram, Sarai, Job, and likely quite a few more, none of whom were "Israel".

Blik said:
I think the Lord spoke eternal truths for all men who would listen.
Click to expand...
He did that as well, but not everything He says, or said, is to every person.

Blik said:
The first five books of scripture (The Torah) are for all people, not just the people who accepted God as their God.
Click to expand...
Most of the first five books were spoken to Israel, not to everyone. They are instructive for us, but not directive for us.

Blik said:
God is the God of everyone.
Click to expand...
True, but that does not mean that everything He said, or everything in the Bible, was spoken to everyone.

Blik said:
It was Moses who trained Israel in the ways of the Lord after he led them in the wilderness.
Click to expand...
Moses was merely the pipeline for the message. The Lord led Israel. He tells us this in Psalm 77:20, Jeremiah 31:32 and again in Hebrews 8:9.

Blik said:
Many of the people who followed Moses were not born of Abraham but we are told they were a mixed crowd of people. When Moses spoke, it wasn’t to Israel only, but to a mixed crowd who became Israel.
Click to expand...
No, the mixed crowd didn't "become" Israel. Israel was comprised of the descendants of Jacob, those who married in, and those few who chose to join through the ritual of circumcision and keeping the Law. The Law was not binding on anyone who was not part of Israel by birth, marriage, or choice.

Blik said:
The new covenant that changed that was directed to Israel who would listen, but the new covenant is an eternal truth spoken to all who accept the Lord. That is true of all God's words.
Click to expand...
Incorrect; the old covenant was not given to all people, even all who accept the Lord. It was given to Israel.

Blik said:
Any time the Lord speaks, it is always truth to humans, never as a private message to only certain people.
Click to expand...
Utter hogwash! God frequently speaks to individuals about specific situations. I would encourage you to read Acts much more carefully. Did God tell Billy Graham to go South from Jerusalem on the road to Gaza? Did God give you the vision of all the animals on a sheet? Did God tell me to go over to Macedonia? Did God warn my pastor that he would be bound with a belt and delivered to the Romans?

No. Those, and many other examples, were specific instructions to specific individuals at specific times in specific situations. He still speaks to His children (those who will listen, at least) with such specificity, and those words are NOT for everyone.

Blik said:
When Moses gave his farewell speech, he plainly stated that he spoke to all people on earth.
Click to expand...
Blik said:
Deuteronomy 32:1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in that verse about speaking to all the people on earth. You're trying to make truth out of nothingness.

Here's the rub: As much as you want the old covenant to be "spoken to everyone", IT SIMPLY WASN'T. No amount of your hermeneutical gymnastics is going to change that. The old covenant was given TO ISRAEL, and NOT to everyone.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9
Dec 6, 2016
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#9
Omegatime said:
The lord showed that laws alone one could not attain a holy relationship. Without grace we could not please Him. We needed a savior which came thru Christ Jesus. Yes, God did set apart Israel from all the other nations. As far as the scriptures more are directed to Israel than the gentiles, especially end time events, but we who are grafted in can learn much thru these scriptures. Remember all the first christians were all jews and the message was brought to the gentiles thru jewish believers.

We should be very grateful for the angels who did not keep their proper place have no grace.
Click to expand...
Did God want only Israel to hear of this or is this the Lord's message to every human? I read many posts telling me that something does not apply to me because it was given to Israel, this post is addressing that. You are giving messages the Lord gives, but not addressing the question of what is for Israel alone and what is for everyone.
 
O

Omegatime

Guest
#10
#10
Blik said:
Did God want only Israel to hear of this or is this the Lord's message to every human? I read many posts telling me that something does not apply to me because it was given to Israel, this post is addressing that. You are giving messages the Lord gives, but not addressing the question of what is for Israel alone and what is for everyone.
Click to expand...
It was always the lord's intention that the gospel message would be taken to the gentiles. All the first christians were all jews which started on the day of Pentecost, Thru these jewish believers was the message started in the nations they were from and then the apostles. The Lord has not forgotten about Israel. Romans 11--- 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

As far as what is directed at Israel, many of the prophecys of end time events are all centered in Jerusalem, Israel and around the Med sea. The temple of God has to be built in Jerusalem, the abomination that causes desolation will happen in Jerusalem, ect ect and three nations that are taken in war are Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. Endless scriptures of events.

Maybe I am wrong but do you have a hatred for Israel?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#11
Jul 18, 2017
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#11
Blik said:
You are giving messages the Lord gives, but not addressing the question of what is for Israel alone and what is for everyone.
Click to expand...
Your posts are getting really tiresome. The bulk of the Bible is addressed to the Jews or Israel. And a large part of that are REBUKES to Israel.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#12
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,425
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#12
Omegatime said:
It was always the lord's intention that the gospel message would be taken to the gentiles. All the first christians were all jews which started on the day of Pentecost, Thru these jewish believers was the message started in the nations they were from and then the apostles. The Lord has not forgotten about Israel. Romans 11--- 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

As far as what is directed at Israel, many of the prophecys of end time events are all centered in Jerusalem, Israel and around the Med sea. The temple of God has to be built in Jerusalem, the abomination that causes desolation will happen in Jerusalem, ect ect and three nations that are taken in war are Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. Endless scriptures of events.
Maybe I am wrong but do you have a hatred for Israel?
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for this post, saying that God's intent has always been that the gentiles would be saved. I have felt so strongly that this is the truth that it has seemed wrong to say God is speaking only with Israel.

It seems to me that to be in tune with God we need to think of Israel as a race God used for this purpose, and not of Israel as a race God thought of as ones he is only interested in. Looking through God's eyes, Israel is a race God gave special blessings to because of the use God made of them and if we are with God, we bless them also for this.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#13
Feb 22, 2021
3,018
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Midwest
#13
Blik said:
Did the Lord speak to Israel only?
Click to expand...
NO! Who is Romans - Philemon for? = ALL today, who Scriptures Conclude Are
ALL "under sin":

Rom_3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Gal_3:22 But The Scripture Hath Concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. = Gospel Of GRACE!
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#14
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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113
#14
Blik said:
Did the Lord speak to Israel only? I think the Lord spoke eternal truths for all men who would listen.

The first five books of scripture (The Torah) are for all people, not just the people who accepted God as their God. God is the God of everyone.

“Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Your Torah.” Psalm 119:18

It was Moses who trained Israel in the ways of the Lord after he led them in the wilderness. Many of the people who followed Moses were not born of Abraham but we are told they were a mixed crowd of people. When Moses spoke, it wasn’t to Israel only, but to a mixed crowd who became Israel.

When God gave them special instructions such as to cut foreskin to signify that they belonged to Him, in God’s eyes it wasn’t saying their ancestor was Abraham but to signify they accepted themselves as set apart people who accepted the one true God as their God. The new covenant that changed that was directed to Israel who would listen, but the new covenant is an eternal truth spoken to all who accept the Lord. That is true of all God's words.

Any time the Lord speaks, it is always truth to humans, never as a private message to only certain people. The Lord speaks truth.

When Moses gave his farewell speech, he plainly stated that he spoke to all people on earth.

Deuteronomy 32:1 Listen, you heavens, and I will speak;
hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. He spoke to them in certain things but he never said we shouldn't learn from it. I mean you can say something to someone meant for them but someone else can hear what you say and learn from it. Jesus if you didn't know spoke to the Jews in a manner they would understand namely their traditions and customs God spoke to Israel in the Torah and only commanded them to keep the customs he never told any gentile or outsider of Abrahams covanent with God to do those things in this way he was speaking to them only but we can still learn from it.
 
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