SPEAKING TONGUES

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yet that verse does not say "HE who is perfect" but it says "That [not a person] which is perfect". So why would everyone reinterpret what is plainly stated?
International Standard Version
But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will be done away with.
New International Version
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used.
World English Bible
but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with

Since God and Christ are complete in every way, what remained to be completed by AD 96? The written Word of God -- the Bible. And this goes back to the three gifts which are all related to divine revelation and inspiration. Technically all Scripture is prophecy. Therefore Peter said this (2 Peter 1:21): For the prophecy* came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4394: προφητεία (prophecy)
προφητεία, προφητείας, ἡ (προφητεύω, which see), Hebrew נְבוּאָה, prophecy, i. e. discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; especially by foretelling future events.

Jerome is the first to translate the Greek, a person who spoke multiple languages proficiently (specifically Paul's Koine Greek), into the Bible and he claims it means seeing God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jerome is the first to translate the Greek, a person who spoke multiple languages proficiently (specifically Paul's Koine Greek), into the Bible and he claims it means seeing God.

It does not mean that he was right. Look at the meaning of prophecy and see why Paul said it would cease. Forget about all these mistaken commentators who REINTERPRETED the words. But you can believe whatever you wish to believe.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It does not mean that he was right. Look at the meaning of prophecy and see why Paul said it would cease. Forget about all these mistaken commentators who REINTERPRETED the words. But you can believe whatever you wish to believe.

We have Church Fathers, who spoke proficient Koine Greek and many claim what Jerome claims.
And you have a Reference that did not exist when Koine Greek became extinct, ended, dead for well over 1,500 years in the year 1889 and going to claim it's correct over those who spoke Koine Greek proficiently.

Comical!
Literally comical.

 

[Blade]

Church Fathers. There are some that stand out who we just love and we quote. Yet if they were here today and talked like they did when they were alive.. we would have cast them out yeah things I can't even post here. Its odd huh.

Anyway doubt will always stop the sweet holy Spirit. I find it odd how some will only believe someone that believes like them. I have books on org Greek when it comes to say 1st Cor 13:10 "Paul's point as this verse indicates when He who is perfect is fully revealed in HIs glory, then anything and everything partial will be swallowed up and in that fullness. A day of completeness and perfection is coming. Everything partial temporary or inadequate shall vanish in the light of Christs brilliant power and glory"

See what I quoted there is not just one person but so many came together and agreed. So am I to toss out all those others Scholars that speak differently about this verse? Or do I just pick the one I agree with? See I look at Christ and what He did when He walked this earth and He commissioned us to keep going and that we would do greater works then what He did because He went to His Father. The fact Christ had to go or the sweet holy Spirit would never come. To see the way the world is now.. as if its better and Christ is not needed. By that I mean everything He did. That spirit that was on Him with out measure (John 3). Hes still here and He didn't stop... if you doubt go look in the mirror.

God when He speaks He cannot lie. He said if you ask Him for the holy Spirit He will give it, a promise to believer. Why would I listen to some man tell me about Gods word what is gone, stopped or ceased or has not ceased? I seek I study I pray I look ask HIM. If you don't believe that's on you and you reap the rewards of that. So I can name those wonderful men of God that believe it has ceased. Ok then what happened to me? I was about 15 and one night this bible study they asked so kindly if I wanted the holy Spirit. I believe they had asked sometime before and I said no and they never said a word. This night I said yes. Well I always want everything God has to give. So I sat in this chair and he only read verses never saying "what that means or doesn't mean" just read verses as in Luke 11 13. Then asked if I wanted the holy Spirit I said again yes. He prays one of the shortest prayers I have ever heard.

Then stopped said "thats it you got it". I thought.. huh? Nothing happened and no one said one word. I got up and the moment I went to sit down tongues just came out. See no one said anything about it before or after as in what will happen and what you can expect. See that bible study always said "if we say anything that is no in the word of God do not believe us". Were talking faith they just believed God who cannot lie. So anytime some one says its gone ceased I say "here I am". Yeah what happened to me is exactly like being asked "hey have you received the holy Spirit since you believed?" "nope what holy spirit". Yeah.. what happened 2000 years go happened to me.

If you doubt what do you expect to happen? Odd some left out that verse "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Anyway.. see I can only speak on what I know and have experienced. He for over 50y in the lord has always kept His word. It has always happened. I have always just believed what He said. So any time you wish to compare what you have not do not ever see I have and am still seeing happen today. FAITH is the only way your going to please Him. So talk about all those works.. but with out faith they mean nothing. Faith is not something you see or feel. You walk by faith you live by faith. Man if you would just not doubt not believe me and ask Him from your heart be willing to be wrong and let Him be right. He will always back up what He says by His word. Ask Him.. Father forgive us..

 

[obertarti]

God to this day, still speaks, to each of us all. Not all hear God in that small still voice that one knows is truth to them beyond measure
God has not stopped speaking as is said he has by the Bible only now. Actually, God takes the Bible and speaks the truth to us each that are his, that are in willing belief to see and will not stop, even if in adversity(s)

Bible written that sinful could get understanding how to find contact with God

If you are saved and so on then you have to be in contact living with God not by bible

By bible God contacts those who is far away from Him

 

[homwardbound]

Bible written that sinful could get understanding how to find contact with God

If you are saved and so on then you have to be in contact living with God not by bible

By bible God contacts those who is far away from Him

You obviously see truth over error, God given you to see and stand in, thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Faith is not something you see or feel. You walk by faith you live by faith. Man if you would just not doubt not believe me and ask Him from your heart be willing to be wrong and let Him be right. He will always back up what He says by His word. Ask Him.. Father forgive us..

Thank you blade to see to see by standing in Faith belief to God just loves us all

F orever
A ble
I n
T he
H eavens

F orwarding
A ll
I ssues
T o
H eaven

By Faith to God in risen Son for us to be born new by God is done for us by God to stand in belief to this to see new and be new, without taking any credit for the self in this truth given us.

If by works of this truth as man has done, includes me in past stuff, then I would continue to boast as man seems to continuously do that and draw in others, these others, seeing themselves as not good enough. Get drawn in, yet I glory in this, The Risen Son is preached, whether or not those there are sincere or not.

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Still going on this very day is it not. people being self-righteous in front of others, as if they got it and will not ever sin again, making themselves better that others as in


Luke 18:9-14

King James Version

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Me a sinner too, Father, I need you, thank you

 

[homwardbound]

From Church Fathers to Reformers all believe the Perfect to Come (τὸ τέλειον) is seeing God or when we die and see God:

Irenaeus understood τὸ τέλειον to refer to seeing God

Tertullian takes face to face to refer to the visible manifestation of Jesus.

Clement’s view of the passage is quite clear. He first cites verses eight and thirteen and then alludes to verse ten in his explanation. τὸ τέλειον is the believer’s state when he sees God.

Origen cites both verse twelve (“face to face”) and verse ten (“that which is perfect”) is about God.

Cyprian cites 1 Corinthians 13:12 (“seeing through a glass”) a “the secrets of God cannot be seen through now but face to face we shall know."

Eusebius states, “The apostle thought it necessary that the prophetic gift should continue in all the Church until the final coming of Jesus."

Methodius uses τὸ τέλειον in reference to the return of Christ and the events associated with it.

Basil relates τὸ τέλειον to complete (as opposed to partial) knowledge of the truth in heaven about God.

Ambrose addresses the issue of theodicy. In doing so he alludes to 1 Corinthians 13:9–10, relating the perfect to the future day when the believer will be face to face with God.

John Chrysostom identifies τὸ τέλειον with complete knowledge, which from the context of his remarks, will be when we see God.

Jerome wrote τὸ τέλειον refers to the state of perfection or Christian maturity that the believer reaches at death or when they see God.

Augustine pinned, the perfect to come is “When He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

Leo the Great wrote, ‘face to face’ is seeing the very Godhead ‘as He is.’

John Calvin wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection that comes to some extent at death, but only completely at the judgment.

Richard Baxter wrote, τὸ τέλειον as the state of perfection reached at death.

Matthew Poole identifies τὸ τέλειον as heaven.

John Locke relates τὸ τέλειον to “the state of accomplishment and perfection” that comes “hereafter.”

Doodridge believes τὸ τέλειον to refer to the heavenly state.

Gill identifies τὸ τέλειον as the perfect knowledge of God in the life to come.

Wesley includes this terse explanation of τὸ τέλειον: “at death and in the last day.

I notice, this, not one commentator mentions verse 13


1 Corinthians 13:13

King James Version

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


1 Corinthians 13:13

New International Version

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Love, charity, overtake every thing else, and goes on forever, as the other things do not matter as much as Love, charity, or does it, you all decide, I have and see to not be alive to the first born me, even though, that does not always be that. I see this as truth and need Love, Charity to lead, I need God, that is it , that's all folks thanks
Love you all, as presented by Son going to that cross to take away sin from Father Daddy's sight to us to be new in trust to it is finished, done for us (John 19:30, Hebrews 9:14-17)