Birthright? can anyone explain it?

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Ariel82

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#1
#1
In a world were we believe "all men are created equal," what does it mean to have a birthright?

I guess its a type of inheritance, right?

What exactly did Esau sell Jacob in Genesis 25: 29-34?

its not the same as blessing Genesis 27:36.

and we have these other verses that mention "birthright"


  • 1 Chronicles 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel—he was indeed the firstborn, but because he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, the son of Israel, so that the genealogy is not listed according to the birthright;



  • 1 Chronicles 5:2 yet Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came a ruler, although the birthright was Joseph’s—
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#2
Sep 4, 2012
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#2
It's called primogeniture. Only the firstborn son inherited everything the father had. It's a shadow of Christ, GOD's only son born of the flesh.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#3
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Ariel82 said:
  • 1 Chronicles 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel—he was indeed the firstborn, but because he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, the son of Israel, so that the genealogy is not listed according to the birthright;
  • 1 Chronicles 5:2 yet Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came a ruler, although the birthright was Joseph’s—
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This is pointing out the fact that because the birthright was transferred to Joseph (by GOD's choice), the genealogy of the firstborns (i.e., genealogy of the inheritance leading to Christ) went through Joseph instead of through the natural firstborn (Reuben), who by the law of primogeniture was entitled to the inheritance.
 
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Ariel82

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#4
#4
IF the birthright was Joseph's why did the ruler come from Judah?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#5
Sep 4, 2012
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#5
Ariel82 said:
IF the birthright was Joseph's why did the ruler come from Judah?
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That's a mystery that I don't entirely understand at the moment. However, I do believe that Jacob was being directed of GOD to split off the headship aspect of the birthright to signify that the head of creation would be a branch of humanity (i.e., the son of GOD). The tribe of Judah (a branch off of the main body of Israel) eventually inherited the headship over Israel, and out of it (salvation is out of the Judeans) came the branch who is the son of man (Adam), who inherited all authority.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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It's important to point out that Judah did not immediately receive headship over Israel after Jacob's prophecy. Ephraim ruled Israel for centuries until GOD split off the headship and gave it to Judah. This happened when the ark of GOD was removed from Ephraim (by the Philistines) because of its sins, and eventually transferred to Judah (by the Philistines). A remarkable story all supernaturally done by GOD.
 
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danschance

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#7
#7
Premogeniture was under the law of Moses but was practiced before that. The first born son was given a double portion of his father's estate. So if their were four sons, the inheritance would be divided five ways and the first born would get 2/5th and the remaining brothers would each get a single 1/5th. The first born son was preeminent and pointed toward Christ, who is God's first born son and only son, which means Jesus is entitled to all that His Father has.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Actually, Judah's headship over all of Israel wasn't actualized until David; but the transfer of the ark from Ephraim to Judah signified GOD's intent, just like David was anointed king 13 years before being crowned king of Judah and 40 years before being crowned king of Israel.
 
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Ariel82

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#9
#9
Saul, the first king of Israel, was from the tribe of Benjamin...the kingship did not pass to Judah until David, and there were some verses about Johnathon and David having a covenant in 1 Samuel 18...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#10
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#10
danschance said:
Premogeniture was under the law of Moses but was practiced before that. The first born son was given a double portion of his father's estate. So if their were four sons, the inheritance would be divided five ways and the first born would get 2/5th and the remaining brothers would each get a single 1/5th. The first born son was preeminent and pointed toward Christ, who is God's first born son and only son, which means Jesus is entitled to all that His Father has.
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Actually, I think primogeniture was forbidden under the law of Moses. What you have accurately described is called something else.
 
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Ariel82

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#11
#11
I'm trying hard to see what the ark has to do with the birthright of Esau since that was way after his time..
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#12
Jul 28, 2012
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#12
Ariel82 said:
IF the birthright was Joseph's why did the ruler come from Judah?
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Because the birthright and the blessing are two entirely different things. Joseph received the birthright which was expressed in Jacob giving him all the land he had and it was the one who had the birthright who became the new head of the clan or the new Patriarch. The blessing however, passed to Judah. This involved the seed line through whom Jesus would come.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Ariel82 said:
Saul, the first king of Israel, was from the tribe of Benjamin...the kingship did not pass to Judah until David, and there were some verses about Johnathon and David having a covenant in 1 Samuel 18...
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Which is one of many examples of the natural firstborn (king in this instance) being rejected, and another whom GOD chose becoming the firstborn. First the natural, then the spiritual...
 
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Ariel82

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#14
#14
what was Esau birthright that was given to Jacob instead?

it wasn't the ark of the Testament because that hadn't been made yet.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#15
Sep 4, 2012
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Ariel82 said:
I'm trying hard to see what the ark has to do with the birthright of Esau since that was way after his time..
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I'm sorry. I meant Jacob's death bed prophecy

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. Genesis 49:8-12
​
 
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Ariel82

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#16
#16
oldhermit said:
Because the birthright and the blessing are two entirely different things. Joseph received the birthright which was expressed in Jacob giving him all the land he had and it was the one who had the birthright who became the new head of the clan or the new Patriarch. The blessing however, passed to Judah. This involved the seed line through whom Jesus would come.
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so the birthright had to do with the land and the blessing had to do with the lineage that the Messiah would come from?

that doesn't make sense though because the next king did not come from Joseph's descendents but his younger brother Benjamin in the form of King Saul.

mmm... one minute I want to research something...
 
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danschance

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#17
#17
Ariel82 said:
what was Esau birthright that was given to Jacob instead?

it wasn't the ark of the Testament because that hadn't been made yet.
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Maybe this will help:

Esau's Birthright
In ancient times, the birthright was a very important and sacred thing. It belonged to the firstborn. The family name and titles were to pass along to the eldest son. He would also receive a chief portion of the inheritance. But it was more than just a title to the physical assets of a family. It was also a spiritual position, and in the case of the people of God, God would lead the family through patriarchs, or fathers (Hebrews 1:1-2). Additionally, in the special case of Esau and Jacob, that meant the one to whom belonged the birthright was the one through who the covenant promise made to their grandfather, Abraham, would be realized. Ultimately, the Messiah would come through the holder of the birthright and bless the nations of the earth. Esau was the firstborn, and the birthright was his. But like many, he failed to appreciate its value and sacredness.
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from: Genesis 25:29-34 - Do Not Sell Your Birthright!
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#18
Sep 4, 2012
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#18
oldhermit said:
Because the birthright and the blessing are two entirely different things. Joseph received the birthright which was expressed in Jacob giving him all the land he had and it was the one who had the birthright who became the new head of the clan or the new Patriarch. The blessing however, passed to Judah. This involved the seed line through whom Jesus would come.
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As I see it, the birthright was a legal right to receive the inheritance, and the deathbed blessing was the actual conference of the inheritance.

I hear everyone say that Jacob stole Esau's birthright, but that's not true. That was Esau's claim, but he sold his birthright to Jacob. Jacob legally owned it, and GOD made sure that he got it because of his faith. GOD loves faith.
 
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Ariel82

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#20
#20
Ephraim and Manesseh were Joseph's sons. Ephraim was the younger but Israel/Jacob blessed him with these words:

Genesis 48
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.”

so you say the ark was in Ephraim? can you give me the scriptures?

i'm trying to figure out this time line:

tracing the birthright.

where does it begin?

With God's promise to Eve about her Seed or with Abraham's covenant with God?

we know that Jacob has the birthright, it passes to Joseph, then to Ephriam?

How does it get to Benjamin (via Saul) and then to Judah (via David)?

Or does it?

what is this "birthright"?

is it like God's annointing?
 
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