Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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You might want to acquaint yourself with the logical fallacy known as an Argument from Silence. I'm not the one assuming the texts you cited prove a unilateral unconditional covenant because it doesn't overtly mention conditions. Nor am I assuming those same texts prove a conditional covenant because they don't mention the word unconditional. I'm saying the texts are ambivalent on the question. You are the one arguing from silence here.
There is however a principle of prophecy IN THE BIBLE that God reserves the right to rescind prophesied blessing and prophesied judgment on the basis of human behaviour after the prophecy (Jer. 18:6-11), even when His prophesy does not specifically mention that it is conditional. For instance, Nineveh was told God would destroy them in forty days (Jonah 3:4), no conditions mentioned, but God relented of the judgment He had prophesied, because they repented at Jonah's prophecy (Jonah 3:10).
Are you referring to my rebuttal of your second point. Is it the case that according to your imposition of calvinist election onto the OT biblical text, no one before the New Covenant was delivered from torment in hades except for faithful circumcised descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Was everyone else irreconcilably condemned?
If anyone other than descendant's of Abraham was delivered from the fire, on what basis were they delivered in the OT, in your opinion? If any circumcised descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was damned, on what basis were they damned but others saved?
There is however a principle of prophecy IN THE BIBLE that God reserves the right to rescind prophesied blessing and prophesied judgment on the basis of human behaviour after the prophecy (Jer. 18:6-11), even when His prophesy does not specifically mention that it is conditional. For instance, Nineveh was told God would destroy them in forty days (Jonah 3:4), no conditions mentioned, but God relented of the judgment He had prophesied, because they repented at Jonah's prophecy (Jonah 3:10).
Are you referring to my rebuttal of your second point. Is it the case that according to your imposition of calvinist election onto the OT biblical text, no one before the New Covenant was delivered from torment in hades except for faithful circumcised descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Was everyone else irreconcilably condemned?
If anyone other than descendant's of Abraham was delivered from the fire, on what basis were they delivered in the OT, in your opinion? If any circumcised descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was damned, on what basis were they damned but others saved?
Ezekiel 36:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them
What is precursor to get new heart?
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them
What is precursor to get new heart?
Well...since you insist. How 'bout a little lesson on the Sovereignty of the King of the whole world? First as a kind, loving Shepherd:
Isa 40:10-11
10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.
NIV
And now as the Mighty Ruler filled with Infinite Wisdom and Understanding and Knowledge:
Isa 40:12-18a
12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has understood the mind of the LORD,or instructed him as his counselor? 14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?
15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket ; they are regarded as dust on the scales ; he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust. 16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,nor its animals enough for burnt offerings. 17 Before him all the nations are as nothing; they are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing.
18 To whom, then, will you compare God?
NIV
And now as Sovereign King of all the Universe who does whatever he pleases, for the earth is his throne's footstool :
Isa 40:21-26
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. 23 He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. 24 No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground,than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.
25 "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One. 26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing.
NIV
My, my. If only God were a better shepherd than a caretaker of the cosmos, he'd be able to save all the weak and helpless sheep he given to his Son. But Mr. Shiloh says that ain't possible. He can only save those who willingly cooperate with Him.
The gets the rest.
Isa 40:10-11
10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.
NIV
And now as the Mighty Ruler filled with Infinite Wisdom and Understanding and Knowledge:
Isa 40:12-18a
12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has understood the mind of the LORD,or instructed him as his counselor? 14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?
15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket ; they are regarded as dust on the scales ; he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust. 16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,nor its animals enough for burnt offerings. 17 Before him all the nations are as nothing; they are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing.
18 To whom, then, will you compare God?
NIV
And now as Sovereign King of all the Universe who does whatever he pleases, for the earth is his throne's footstool :
Isa 40:21-26
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. 23 He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. 24 No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground,than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.
25 "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One. 26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing.
NIV
My, my. If only God were a better shepherd than a caretaker of the cosmos, he'd be able to save all the weak and helpless sheep he given to his Son. But Mr. Shiloh says that ain't possible. He can only save those who willingly cooperate with Him.
The gets the rest.
I do not listn to false teaching and since your view is Calvinistic, I won't submit myself to anything you may think I need.
You are using scripture and really, scripture cannot be used in the sense you think it is yours to claim.
You are using scripture and really, scripture cannot be used in the sense you think it is yours to claim.
on the Sovereignty of God. So how can scripture be used, pray tell?
I'll take that as your on the Sovereignty of God.
So how can scripture be used, pray tell?
on the Sovereignty of God.So how can scripture be used, pray tell?
you do not get to tell the narrative for other people. you can take it as you will. why should the truth suddenly dawn upon you now?
this habit of some people in this forum to accuse and say the other person is such and such or believes something we all know is not true, is the sad attempt to undermine others when you cannot quiet them
Seems like you can't make up your mind. You now like Isa 40 after all?
If not, what about this one:
Ps 103:19
19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens;
And His sovereignty rules over all?
NAS
If not, what about this:
Prov 16:4
4 The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil?
NAS
Looks like he rules also over all those hate him and never acknowledge him.
If you think you can connect the dots, a great companion passage for the immediate above is Rom 9:19-21.
If not, what about this one:
Ps 103:19
19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens;
And His sovereignty rules over all?
NAS
If not, what about this:
Prov 16:4
4 The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil?
NAS
Looks like he rules also over all those hate him and never acknowledge him.
If you think you can connect the dots, a great companion passage for the immediate above is Rom 9:19-21.
