Jesus (bible) Vs Isa (quran)

[Bowman]

Trinity in the Koran...

First of all, you don't base an entire theology or denial of, upon a single, solitary verse....that would be obtuse, and yet, that is what islam does.

The authors of the Koran often times proclaim what the Biblical Trinity is, by pulling in examples of what it is not...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.



In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say three - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly that he is Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…

 

[Bowman]

More Trinity in the Koran...

TheTrinity



علمه شديد القوى

AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa

53.5 He taught him, Lord of the mighty powers.



Summary of 53.5:

• The opening chapter of Revelation informs us that John’s witness is “martureo”, i.e. “affirming that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration”
• The teaching is done by Jesus Christ
• Jesus taught “him”
• Jesus taught John
• Jesus’ divine Revelation to John emanates from the Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible, as demonstrated by the greeting contained in the opening of Revelation chapter one
• This greeting, from the one God, is from:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Spirit

• 53.5 builds upon 53.4 by informing us of the divine singular source of John’s inspiration
• 53.5 begins by using the word “AAallamahu”, which means, “He taught him”
• All Koranic usages of the word “AAallamahu”, & “waAAallamahu” refer exclusively to “allah”
• Hence, we have yet another classic example of the “allah” of the Koran attempting to emulate the deity position occupied by Jesus Christ

1. Jesus taught him
2. “allah” taught him

• 53.5 continues to describe who taught John via the usage of “shadeedu alquwa”, which is rendered “Lord of the Mighty Powers”
• Interestingly, per the classic definition, “shadeedu” can be applied to a man
• Special note goes to “alquwa”, which is plural – not singular
• Observe what has just occurred in this sura:

1. The singular inspiration source, as defined in 53.4, is confirmed as “allah”
2. 53.5 describes “allah” as being Lord of the Mighty powers (plural)
3. “Allah” is singular, and yet plural

• Amazing as it is, the authors of the Koran have imputed the Triune deity of the Biblical God into their newly created god “allah”
• Recapping ayahs 1 - 5 in sura 53, we have the following parallels to Revelation:

1. John falls at the feet of Jesus
2. John is the Companion of Jesus
3. John did not die
4. John did not err
5. John speaks not by his own will
6. John received divinely inspired Revelation
7. This Revelation was signified via an angel
8. The Revelation is from Jesus Christ
9. Jesus taught John
10. Jesus is the Triune God

 

[Human]

Re: More Trinity in the Koran...

TheTrinity



علمه شديد القوى

AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa

53.5 He taught him, Lord of the mighty powers.



Summary of 53.5:

• The opening chapter of Revelation informs us that John’s witness is “martureo”, i.e. “affirming that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration”
• The teaching is done by Jesus Christ
• Jesus taught “him”
• Jesus taught John
• Jesus’ divine Revelation to John emanates from the Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible, as demonstrated by the greeting contained in the opening of Revelation chapter one
• This greeting, from the one God, is from:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Spirit

• 53.5 builds upon 53.4 by informing us of the divine singular source of John’s inspiration
• 53.5 begins by using the word “AAallamahu”, which means, “He taught him”
• All Koranic usages of the word “AAallamahu”, & “waAAallamahu” refer exclusively to “allah”
• Hence, we have yet another classic example of the “allah” of the Koran attempting to emulate the deity position occupied by Jesus Christ

1. Jesus taught him
2. “allah” taught him

• 53.5 continues to describe who taught John via the usage of “shadeedu alquwa”, which is rendered “Lord of the Mighty Powers”
• Interestingly, per the classic definition, “shadeedu” can be applied to a man
• Special note goes to “alquwa”, which is plural – not singular
• Observe what has just occurred in this sura:

1. The singular inspiration source, as defined in 53.4, is confirmed as “allah”
2. 53.5 describes “allah” as being Lord of the Mighty powers (plural)
3. “Allah” is singular, and yet plural

• Amazing as it is, the authors of the Koran have imputed the Triune deity of the Biblical God into their newly created god “allah”
• Recapping ayahs 1 - 5 in sura 53, we have the following parallels to Revelation:

1. John falls at the feet of Jesus
2. John is the Companion of Jesus
3. John did not die
4. John did not err
5. John speaks not by his own will
6. John received divinely inspired Revelation
7. This Revelation was signified via an angel
8. The Revelation is from Jesus Christ
9. Jesus taught John
10. Jesus is the Triune God

Don't think so.

 

[IbnSyed]

Re: More Trinity in the Koran...

TheTrinity



علمه شديد القوى

AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa

53.5 He taught him, Lord of the mighty powers.



Summary of 53.5:

• The opening chapter of Revelation informs us that John’s witness is “martureo”, i.e. “affirming that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration”
• The teaching is done by Jesus Christ
• Jesus taught “him”
• Jesus taught John
• Jesus’ divine Revelation to John emanates from the Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible, as demonstrated by the greeting contained in the opening of Revelation chapter one
• This greeting, from the one God, is from:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Spirit

• 53.5 builds upon 53.4 by informing us of the divine singular source of John’s inspiration
• 53.5 begins by using the word “AAallamahu”, which means, “He taught him”
• All Koranic usages of the word “AAallamahu”, & “waAAallamahu” refer exclusively to “allah”
• Hence, we have yet another classic example of the “allah” of the Koran attempting to emulate the deity position occupied by Jesus Christ

1. Jesus taught him
2. “allah” taught him

• 53.5 continues to describe who taught John via the usage of “shadeedu alquwa”, which is rendered “Lord of the Mighty Powers”
• Interestingly, per the classic definition, “shadeedu” can be applied to a man
• Special note goes to “alquwa”, which is plural – not singular
• Observe what has just occurred in this sura:

1. The singular inspiration source, as defined in 53.4, is confirmed as “allah”
2. 53.5 describes “allah” as being Lord of the Mighty powers (plural)
3. “Allah” is singular, and yet plural

• Amazing as it is, the authors of the Koran have imputed the Triune deity of the Biblical God into their newly created god “allah”
• Recapping ayahs 1 - 5 in sura 53, we have the following parallels to Revelation:

1. John falls at the feet of Jesus
2. John is the Companion of Jesus
3. John did not die
4. John did not err
5. John speaks not by his own will
6. John received divinely inspired Revelation
7. This Revelation was signified via an angel
8. The Revelation is from Jesus Christ
9. Jesus taught John
10. Jesus is the Triune God

This Trinity stuff is just great. I have used the 4:171 to share about Trinity, But usually used the Kalimatullah and Ruhullah. Never have I seen this translation. It is amazing. Also the Surah 53. Wow Brother, plz keep it coming. I am now reading your material in detail. Give me some time to think it over. Blessings.

 

[Bowman]

Re: More Trinity in the Koran...

This Trinity stuff is just great. I have used the 4:171 to share about Trinity, But usually used the Kalimatullah and Ruhullah. Never have I seen this translation. It is amazing. Also the Surah 53. Wow Brother, plz keep it coming. I am now reading your material in detail. Give me some time to think it over. Blessings.

Please take your time in reading through it....it took me years to adequately digest what I was uncovering...pretty amazing stuff...

Time to rethink everything that we have been told...

 

[Bowman]

Trinity in the Koran...

5.72 - 73

لقد كفر الذين قالوا إن الله هو المسيح ابن مريم وقال المسيح يبني إسرءيل اعبدوا الله ربي وربكم إنه من يشرك بالله فقد حرم الله عليه الجنة ومأويه النار وما للظلمين من أنصار لقد كفر الذين قالوا إن الله ثالث ثلثة وما من إله إلا إله وحد وإن لم ينتهوا عما يقولون ليمسن الذين كفروا منهم عذاب أليم​

Laqad kafara allatheena qaloo inna Allaha huwaalmaseehu ibnu maryama waqala almaseehu ya banee isra-eela oAAbudoo Allaha rabbee warabbakum innahu man yushrik biAllahi faqad harrama Allahu AAalayhi aljannata wama/wahu alnnaru wama lilththalimeena min ansarin laqad kafara allatheena qaloo inna Allaha thalithu thalathatin wama min ilahin illa ilahun wahidun wa-in lam yantahoo AAamma yaqooloona layamassanna allatheena kafaroo minhum AAathabun aleemun

Certainly they whom disbelieved said:"Truly“allah”, heThe Messiah, Mary's son,” and The Messiah said: " My son’s of Israel, you worship“allah”,My Lord and your Lord, truly him, he associates a partner with “allah”so certainly“allah”, he forbade on himthe Paradise, and his home is the fire, and no wrongdoers from helpers.” Certainly they whom disbelieved said:"Truly“allah”a third(of) three.”And not from god except one god, and lest they do not refrain from what they say, a painful torture will touch whom they disbelieved from them.(5.72 – 73)



These ayahs tell us about what the disbelievers said.

They believe:


1)That “allah” is The Messiah.


Fact is, “allah” is not The Messiah. He never has been and never will be.Thus, the Koran rightly records this as a false statement.




They believe:

2)That Jesus said for Israel to worship “allah” along with Him.

Fact is, Jesus never once said for Israel to worship “allah”, neither with Him, or without Him.Thus, the Koran also rightly records this as a false statement.




They believe:

3)That Jesus associated a partner with “allah”.

Fact is, Jesus never once associated a partnership with “allah”.Thus, the Koran also rightly records this as a false statement.




They believe:

4)That “allah” is a third of three.


Fact is, “allah” is not a third of three, and neither is the Biblical Holy Trinity.Never has been and never will be.Thus, the Koran also rightly records this as a false statement, as well.

 

[edo123457]

I am a Muslim what is the dilemma here I don't understand we as Muslims believe and love Jesus.

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Who is Jesus, man or divine?

 

[IbnSyed]

I am a Muslim what is the dilemma here I don't understand we as Muslims believe and love Jesus.

Dear Brother, the dilemma that existed for me for many years is this - If as Muslims we love and believe in Jesus, then why don't we follow his way and his words? WE say that we LOVE Jesus and RESPECT him but all my life not many imams would talk about Isa al Masih on Fridays or on any special occasion. Even during some special meetings held, if they do talk, it would only be a passing statement. Why are WE afraid of talking about Isa al Masih in our Mosques. Is he not one of the greatest prophets according to Islam? How much of his teaching is available to Muslims. He has taught some very powerful words which are life transforming, but we do not use his teachings to grow in our moral or spiritual life at all. Why? Do WE feel insecure that if WE speak more about Isa, people will get more attracted to Him?

 

[TREX2008]

There's a pretty easy way to solve this.
Islam was not created until 500 years after Christianity, thus it would be easy for an Islamic writer to expand upon a book that was already there, adding and taking from it what they pleased so it better suited them.

What gives another religion a right to plagiarize from a book older than itself, and change certain things in it to suit their belief system. This in and of itself shows the character of a religion. I can draw my own conclusions from this.

 

[Human]

There's a pretty easy way to solve this.
Islam was not created until 500 years after Christianity, thus it would be easy for an Islamic writer to expand upon a book that was already there, adding and taking from it what they pleased so it better suited them.

What gives another religion a right to plagiarize from a book older than itself, and change certain things in it to suit their belief system. This in and of itself shows the character of a religion. I can draw my own conclusions from this.

Well, hold on there, the Jews got the story of the Great Flood from the Epic of Gilgamesh, much of the creation symbolism comes from Hinduism. Judaism, particularly during the days of the Roman Empire, was heavily influenced by Socrates and Aristotle. Buddhism was widespread among the region come Jesus time and in fact if you look at the things Jesus says, many of them are almost exact copies of Buddhist sayings, which came 500 years before Jesus was born.

Religions constantly take influence from other religions, from societal influences and from customs of the times.

 

[Bowman]

I am a Muslim what is the dilemma here I don't understand we as Muslims believe and love Jesus.

The issue is that Jesus is God in both books of faith...

 

[Bowman]

Well, hold on there, the Jews got the story of the Great Flood from the Epic of Gilgamesh, much of the creation symbolism comes from Hinduism. Judaism, particularly during the days of the Roman Empire, was heavily influenced by Socrates and Aristotle. Buddhism was widespread among the region come Jesus time and in fact if you look at the things Jesus says, many of them are almost exact copies of Buddhist sayings, which came 500 years before Jesus was born.

Religions constantly take influence from other religions, from societal influences and from customs of the times.

More meritless googled assertions...

 

[tiziouzou]

I am not convinced with your analysis Bowman, The arabic sourat says that jesus is not God and that He was not crucified. There is also this one [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #001900"]Sourat-l-ikhlâs
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #001900"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

Bismi-l-lâhi-r-rahmâni-r-rahîm
(1). Qoul houwa-l-lâhou ahad (2). Allâhou-s-samad (3). Lam yalid wa lam yoûlad (4). Wa lam yakoun lahou koufouwan ahah.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Bowman]

I am not convinced with your analysis Bowman, The arabic sourat says that jesus is not God and that He was not crucified.

Only islam, and other Christian cults, make the claim that Jesus is not divine.

Koranic Arabic states that He is indeed divine...

وهو الذي فيالسماءإلهوفي الأرضإلهوهو​

الحكيمالعليم​

Wahuwa allathee feealssama-iilahunwafee al-ardiilahunwahuwaalhakeemu alAAaleemu

43.84And He, whom inthe heavens,God,and upon the earth,God,and He,the wise, the one who knows.


What would the god 'allah' be doing upon the earth...?



Further, it is foolish to base the denial of the crucifixion event upon one mistranslated word in on ayah...

There is also this one [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #001900"]Sourat-l-ikhlâs[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #001900"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

Bismi-l-lâhi-r-rahmâni-r-rahîm
(1). Qoul houwa-l-lâhou ahad (2). Allâhou-s-samad (3). Lam yalid wa lam yoûlad (4). Wa lam yakoun lahou koufouwan ahah.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I believe that I already dealt with this Islamic one-hit-wonder a few posts back...

 

[Bowman]

Koran: Jesus is God

اتخذوا أحبارهم ورهبنهم أربابا من دون الله

والمسيح ابن مريم وما أمروا إلا ليعبدوا إلها

وحدا لا إله إلا هو سبحنه عما يشركون​

Ittakhathoo ahbarahum waruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseeha ibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahan wahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahu AAamma yushrikoona

9.31They have taken their learned persons and their monks (as) lords from superior (to) “allah” and The Messiah, Mary's Son; and they commanded not except that they may worship one god, no god except He, glory be to Him from what they associate partners.


Observe that “allah” is included along with The Messiah, Jesus Christ, via the copulative conjunction “wa”, as being part and parcel of the prepositional phrase initiating with “min” (from).


Further, although "allah" and Jesus are listed separately, they are treated as ONE...via the singular "huwa" (him)...

This is the same exact method as used in the Holy Bible in many locations that proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ...and, as such, the authors of the Koran have also copied this over into their opus.

The difference being that they have attempted to raise the pagan Arab god "allah" up to the Biblical deity status of Jesus Christ.

You will see the modern English translators deceitfully butchering this text by inserting all sorts of add-on-words in parenthesis – in order to make this ayah conform to the Islamic paradigm.

Fact of the matter is that this ayah proclaims Jesus Christ as God Almighty.

 

[Bowman]

As further evidence that 4.157 confirms Jesus’ death upon the cross, we have included all the Koranic crucifixion instances, which confirm that the Koran always describes a crucifixion event with complete certainty of death…

• 5.33…they will be crucified till death
• 7.124…I will surely crucify you till death
• 12.41…so will be crucified till death
• 20.71…and I will surely crucify you till death
• 26.49…and I will surely crucify you till death

Death through crucifixion is always mandated in the Koran.

Thus, there is no reason at all to believe that 4.157 would break this trend…

 

[Bowman]

Jesus was Crucified until death says Koran!

إذ قال الله يعيسى إني متوفيك ورافعك إلي ومطهرك من الذين كفروا وجاعل الذين اتبعوك فوق الذين كفروا إلى يوم القيمة ثم إلي مرجعكم فأحكم بينكم فيما كنتم فيه تختلفون​

Ith qala Allahu ya AAeesa innee mutawaffeeka warafiAAuka ilayya wamutahhiruka mina allatheena kafaroo wajaAAilu allatheena ittabaAAooka fawqa allatheena kafaroo ila yawmi alqiyamati thumma ilayya marjiAAukum faahkumu baynakum feema kuntum feehi takhtalifoona

3.55When “allah” said: "O! Jesus,I will cause you to die and raising you to me and you who is pure and clean from whom they disbelieved, andgoing to appoint whom they followed you over whom they disbelieved to the Resurrection Day;then to me you return, so I will judge between you in what you were in Him, you differ.




This ayah is a classic example of a Koranic ayah proclaiming the singular physical death “mutawaffeeka” of Jesus Christ, and His singular resurrection “warafiAAuka”.

In other words, this ayah once again proves Jesus crucifixion till death upon the cross, and His subsequent singular resurrection.

Further, this ayah states that Jesus Christ is the one who is pure and clean “wamutahhiruka”, and is the one who is going to appoint “wajaAAilu” His followers on the Resurrection Day.

This, then, makes Jesus Christ cognizant of the Day of Resurrection…and, as we know, only God has this power.

This ayah then shifts from discussing Jesus, via the interjection of “thumma”, and turns its attention to the people, via the usage of the plurals “marjiAAukum”, “baynakum”, “kuntum”, and “takhtalifoona”.

This ayah concludes with Judgment day being decided in favor of Jesus’ followers, the ones that were in Him “feehi”.

 

[AziziLoveChrist]

bow man did u by any chance study formal Arabic ?or at least u study Qurainc Arabic? if u didnt then I can clearly disagree with ur analysis !

 

[Bowman]

bow man did u by any chance study formal Arabic ?or at least u study Qurainc Arabic? if u didnt then I can clearly disagree with ur analysis !

I have studied Koranic Arabic for nearly 20 years.