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M

mikem

Guest
#41
So far, I haven't seen very many people on this site have very respectful conversation, and I do very much believe being respectful is an important part of loving one another.
As one Muslim writer has posted, he is not pro-Christian. That is understandable, just as, very obviously, many of the Christians on here have shown themselves to be anti-Muslim.
Although I understand the question "why would a Muslim want to join a Christian chat service", I think a better question is "why are so many Christians unable to speak in love instead of derision, snide remarks, accusation, gross overgeneralization, and hurtfulness?"

I am a Christian. I believe there are some fallacies in the Qur'an. I also know that I do not fully know or understand the Qur'an. I do not fully understand the Bible either.
But one thing I do know is that the Bible commands us to love one another - including Muslims, and I choose to respect that commandment.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#43
'Allah' is the exact phonetic rendition Jesus would have used in reference to God when he spoke in Aramaic. If Jesus said it, I don't see why a modern Christian can't.

Because this day and age it confuses two religious beliefs.One is not the other just as the Muslim poster here has said.Their belief is not ours.God is the name we use.Allah is their god and the two are complete opposites.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#44
No, stop the lies.
The Qur'an never has a single verse that says go and look back in the Bible for 'further reading and clarity'.

I accept what you say on the topic, but will always disagree, and never accept.

Just to reiterate, I know my holy scripture from back to front. There is no point in spreading lie.

The Bible is there to correct the Holy Qur'an.
How.
Now if we use logic and basic common sense, the Holy Qur'an came after the Bible.

And No the Qur'an did not copy a single verse from the Bible.
These are Gods words so to have them in the Bible and Holy Qur'an, does not mean they are a copy of each other.
God did not say in the Qur'an that it was copied from the Bible and Torah. No

The Qur'an was sent to correct many things in Christianity, such as the Trinity or Crucifixion.

There you go,from the horses mouth so to speak.Muslims and Christians are at odds with each other.Their God/gods are not the same.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#45
So far, I haven't seen very many people on this site have very respectful conversation, and I do very much believe being respectful is an important part of loving one another.
As one Muslim writer has posted, he is not pro-Christian. That is understandable, just as, very obviously, many of the Christians on here have shown themselves to be anti-Muslim.
Although I understand the question "why would a Muslim want to join a Christian chat service", I think a better question is "why are so many Christians unable to speak in love instead of derision, snide remarks, accusation, gross overgeneralization, and hurtfulness?"

I am a Christian. I believe there are some fallacies in the Qur'an. I also know that I do not fully know or understand the Qur'an. I do not fully understand the Bible either.
But one thing I do know is that the Bible commands us to love one another - including Muslims, and I choose to respect that commandment.

I am anti Muslim faith,not the person.For the person I feel deep pity that they are bound by a satanic false religion from which they need deliverance.The disciples were told to share the Gospel and if it was not accepted to shake the dust from their feet.I do not believe in lulling someone to sleep and making them feel right in their false religion.We shouldnt hate but this is a demonic religion and people need to be delivered from it.
 
Oct 30, 2014
1,150
7
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#46
I am anti Muslim faith,not the person.For the person I feel deep pity that they are bound by a satanic false religion from which they need deliverance.The disciples were told to share the Gospel and if it was not accepted to shake the dust from their feet.I do not believe in lulling someone to sleep and making them feel right in their false religion.We shouldnt hate but this is a demonic religion and people need to be delivered from it.
What's demonic about the religion, if not the practices of some of its more extreme adherents? You can't ''hate the religion'' without hating the people. Thats handy to say, a nice compartmentalization to make you a little more PC, but it's not feasable.

As for Islam:

Islam doesn't allow women power or authoirity? Actually, four of the five most populous Islam states have elected female heads-of-state. America, in this regard, is more oppressive to women than men.

Islam forces women to wear Burkha? Actually, more Islamic countries ban the Burkha than those who allow it. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the only Muslim countries where in certain areas women are expected to wear the Burkha, and these two countries make up less than 5% of Muslims worldwide. In France, for instance, there are 3 million Muslim women. Less than 400 wear a burkha.

The founding fathers were Christian and would oppose Islam? So why did Thomas Jefferson teach himself Arabic with his own copy of the Quran and host an Iftar at the White House during Ramadan? Why did John Adams, in his book ''Thoughs on Government'' call Mohammed one of the great inquirers after truth? WHy did Ben Franklin say ''Even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send an emmisary to teach Mohammedenism to us, he would be welcomed and given a pulpit''? Why did George Washington employ Muslims? You know who the very first global political figure to recognize the US as an independent nation was? A Muslim: Sultan Mohammed ben Abdellah. The Treaty of Tripoli states ''The government of the USA is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion and has itself no character against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims''.

Islamic countries are historically more inhumane and bloodthirsty than others? Take one look into the codes of Islamic armies and their application throughout history (particularly in Crusades periods and before the Italian rennaisance) and you'll see that Muslim armies were much more humane than their Christian counterparts. They fed the armies of defeated enemies, adhered to strict rules barring the killing of women, children, combatants and livestock, barring the destruction of crop, water wells and infastructure, and barring the rapes of women as described and evidenced in Gerard Chailand's ''The Art of War in World History''.

In comparison the Christian armies raped and pillaged all round them. Check out the Internet Medieval Sourcebook here. Internet History Sourcebooks

The Muslims littered conquered nations with schools, libraries, and social welfare, as per Medieval Sourcebook and other books, among them Patricia Crones Columbia University Press Publication ''God's Rule - Government and Islam''.


Lastly, about 45% of American Muslims are scientifically literate and believe evolution is the best explanation for the diversification of life. That's the same as America as a whole, about 45% of all Americans think evolution is the best explanation. Barely 20% of American Christians believe so. Muslims historically, did much more to contribute to scientific progress than hinder it as the Christian Church has done.

It's really only in the last 100 years (during the oppression, manipulation and exploitation of Muslim nations) wherein there has been a massive surge in Muslim violence. Historically, by and large, they were a more hospitable, progressive and humane crowd than Christians were.

Exceptions exist, of course.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#47
What's demonic about the religion, if not the practices of some of its more extreme adherents? You can't ''hate the religion'' without hating the people. Thats handy to say, a nice compartmentalization to make you a little more PC, but it's not feasable.

As for Islam:

Islam doesn't allow women power or authoirity? Actually, four of the five most populous Islam states have elected female heads-of-state. America, in this regard, is more oppressive to women than men.

Islam forces women to wear Burkha? Actually, more Islamic countries ban the Burkha than those who allow it. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the only Muslim countries where in certain areas women are expected to wear the Burkha, and these two countries make up less than 5% of Muslims worldwide. In France, for instance, there are 3 million Muslim women. Less than 400 wear a burkha.

The founding fathers were Christian and would oppose Islam? So why did Thomas Jefferson teach himself Arabic with his own copy of the Quran and host an Iftar at the White House during Ramadan? Why did John Adams, in his book ''Thoughs on Government'' call Mohammed one of the great inquirers after truth? WHy did Ben Franklin say ''Even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send an emmisary to teach Mohammedenism to us, he would be welcomed and given a pulpit''? Why did George Washington employ Muslims? You know who the very first global political figure to recognize the US as an independent nation was? A Muslim: Sultan Mohammed ben Abdellah. The Treaty of Tripoli states ''The government of the USA is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion and has itself no character against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims''.

Islamic countries are historically more inhumane and bloodthirsty than others? Take one look into the codes of Islamic armies and their application throughout history (particularly in Crusades periods and before the Italian rennaisance) and you'll see that Muslim armies were much more humane than their Christian counterparts. They fed the armies of defeated enemies, adhered to strict rules barring the killing of women, children, combatants and livestock, barring the destruction of crop, water wells and infastructure, and barring the rapes of women as described and evidenced in Gerard Chailand's ''The Art of War in World History''.

In comparison the Christian armies raped and pillaged all round them. Check out the Internet Medieval Sourcebook here. Internet History Sourcebooks

The Muslims littered conquered nations with schools, libraries, and social welfare, as per Medieval Sourcebook and other books, among them Patricia Crones Columbia University Press Publication ''God's Rule - Government and Islam''.


Lastly, about 45% of American Muslims are scientifically literate and believe evolution is the best explanation for the diversification of life. That's the same as America as a whole, about 45% of all Americans think evolution is the best explanation. Barely 20% of American Christians believe so. Muslims historically, did much more to contribute to scientific progress than hinder it as the Christian Church has done.

It's really only in the last 100 years (during the oppression, manipulation and exploitation of Muslim nations) wherein there has been a massive surge in Muslim violence. Historically, by and large, they were a more hospitable, progressive and humane crowd than Christians were.

Exceptions exist, of course.
Sorry I just dont believe the rhetoric about the Muslim faith so I'll be honest and tell you all I read was your first comment to me. I can hate a religion and not the person.I dont agree with Mormons,I dont hate them but I think their belief is false.I dont agree with RCCs but I have friends in the church. So yes I can,in fact,do that.I'm just that mature. :)
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#48
Unlike you, I understand the bible and Christian worldview and Islam and those documents which comprise the epistemology of Islam so I'll explain.

We're not anti-Muslim, we're anti-Islam.

In other words, we fully understand that Islam is a false religious cult fabricated by a disgruntled young man who retreated into a cave to sulk because his tribe's leaders rejected him for leadership due to him being weak and unbalanced; however, this doesn't equate to us hating or condemning Muslims though we understand how dangerous people deceived by a false religious cult as violent and anti-Christian as Islam are to both non-Muslims and even other Muslims and, in fact, entire societies and the world at large.

So yes, we completely repudiate and reject Islam. But no, we don't hate or condemn Muslims though we understand quite well that they have been deceived by a dangerous and anti-Christian worldview and pose a clear and present danger to non-Muslims and non-Muslims nations in either a passive preparation role or an active terrorist role.

I hope you find this helpful.

So far, I haven't seen very many people on this site have very respectful conversation, and I do very much believe being respectful is an important part of loving one another.
As one Muslim writer has posted, he is not pro-Christian. That is understandable, just as, very obviously, many of the Christians on here have shown themselves to be anti-Muslim.
Although I understand the question "why would a Muslim want to join a Christian chat service", I think a better question is "why are so many Christians unable to speak in love instead of derision, snide remarks, accusation, gross overgeneralization, and hurtfulness?"

I am a Christian. I believe there are some fallacies in the Qur'an. I also know that I do not fully know or understand the Qur'an. I do not fully understand the Bible either.
But one thing I do know is that the Bible commands us to love one another - including Muslims, and I choose to respect that commandment.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#49
In majority Muslim countries women exercise varying degrees of liberty based on whichever Islamic interpretation holds dominance where they live. But, in all cases, women are faced with religious restrictions that curtail the liberty Western women presently enjoy.

However, you're correct that the Qur’an contains verses that may be interpreted to permit or support the role of women in politics, such as its mention of the Queen of Sheba without ever negating the validity of her role as a leader, and the Hadith provides numerous examples of women having public leadership roles and that this has kept the door open for Muslim women to engage in politics in Muslim nations (as long as they live within the religious and political restrictions Islam demands). I also don't have a problem with your estimates of the burqa; however, the number of women wearing the Niqab, Al-Amira, Shayla, Khimar, Chador, etc... are exponentially greater than those who choose the burqa.

Now it's bizarre and disingenuous to falsely assert that one founding father reading a Quran to understand what was motivating the Barbary Pirates, misrepresenting the Treaty of Tripoli, misrepresenting John Adam's view of Islam, falsely asserting that Washington’s welcoming some “Mahometans” as workers on his Mount Vernon estate equates to his endorsement of Islam which his published materials (such as the General Orders he issued to the Continental Army for example) clearly refute, etc... means the founding fathers were pro-Islam.

What also needs to be mentioned here specifically with respect to the Treaty of Tripoli is that the translation of the Treaty of Tripoli by Barlow has been found faulty, and there is doubt whether Article 11 corresponds to anything of the same purport in the Arabic version.

In 1931 Hunter Miller completed a commission by the United States government to analyze United States' treaties and to explain how they function and what they mean in terms of the United States' legal position in relationship with the rest of the world. According to Hunter Miller's notes:

"The Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic" and "Article 11... does not exist at all." After comparing the United States' version by Barlow with the Arabic and even the Italian version, Miller continues by claiming that, "The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli.

How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so. Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point.

From this, Miller concludes: "A further and perhaps equal mystery is the fact that since 1797 the Barlow translation has been trustfully and universally accepted as the just equivalent of the Arabic... yet evidence of the erroneous character of the Barlow translation has been in the archives of the Department of State since perhaps 1800 or thereabouts..."
The evidence for U.S. Christianity is indisputable. Invoking an altered and mistranslated treaty that sought to assure Muslim pirates they were not in a religious war changes nothing.

As John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams, declared:

"From the day of the Declaration, the people of the North American Union and of its constituent States, were associated bodies of civilized men and Christians, in a state of nature; but not of Anarchy. They were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct" (1821, p. 26, emp. added).

Note: Recommended reading for those interested in actually learning about the history of the United States:

1) A Patriot's History of the United States: A Patriot's History of the United States: From Columbus's Great Discovery to America’s Age of Entitlement: Larry Schweikart, Michael Patrick Allen: 9781595231154: Amazon.com: Books

2) The Patriot's History Reader: The Patriot's History Reader: Essential Documents for Every American: Larry Schweikart, Michael Allen, Dave Dougherty: 9781595230782: Amazon.com: Books

As for your false assertions about Muslim warring, they are utter fabricated nonsense. The truth is that the Muslims were straight genocidal maniacs. They murdered 80,000,000 Hindus, for example. They once lined up 150,000 unarmed Hindus and slaughtered them in a single day.

Compare that to the 2 million or so killed on both sides (Islam and Christian) in the course of the Crusades. See 'The New Concise History of the Crusades' by Dr. Thomas Madden.

For a quick primer, read: The Real History of the Crusades | Christianity Today

In contrast to the first centuries of Christian martyrdom, the first centuries of Islam were absolutely soaked in blood. The killing only slowed down as the Islamic empire finally ran into boundaries in the 8th century, after about a century of expansionist, imperialist, unprovoked Islamic aggression. See: Tears of Jihad - Political Islam

Even after the initial expansion slowed, the killings did not end. Slaughter (jihad) and oppression (sharia) are part of the core doctrines of Islam. Killing for Islam is not a modern idea, and it will never end until some sort of reformation takes place within the religion. See: Comparing Jesus and Muhammad, Christianity and Islam

But the historically ignorant atheist simply fabricates a fictional history and twists it to comport to their anti-Christian view of the world which they then disingenuously propagate. There's not even a shred of credibility or actual truth seeking involved.


As for Islam:

Islam doesn't allow women power or authoirity? Actually, four of the five most populous Islam states have elected female heads-of-state. America, in this regard, is more oppressive to women than men.

Islam forces women to wear Burkha? Actually, more Islamic countries ban the Burkha than those who allow it. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the only Muslim countries where in certain areas women are expected to wear the Burkha, and these two countries make up less than 5% of Muslims worldwide. In France, for instance, there are 3 million Muslim women. Less than 400 wear a burkha.

The founding fathers were Christian and would oppose Islam? So why did Thomas Jefferson teach himself Arabic with his own copy of the Quran and host an Iftar at the White House during Ramadan? Why did John Adams, in his book ''Thoughs on Government'' call Mohammed one of the great inquirers after truth? WHy did Ben Franklin say ''Even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send an emmisary to teach Mohammedenism to us, he would be welcomed and given a pulpit''? Why did George Washington employ Muslims? You know who the very first global political figure to recognize the US as an independent nation was? A Muslim: Sultan Mohammed ben Abdellah. The Treaty of Tripoli states ''The government of the USA is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion and has itself no character against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims''.

Islamic countries are historically more inhumane and bloodthirsty than others? Take one look into the codes of Islamic armies and their application throughout history (particularly in Crusades periods and before the Italian rennaisance) and you'll see that Muslim armies were much more humane than their Christian counterparts. They fed the armies of defeated enemies, adhered to strict rules barring the killing of women, children, combatants and livestock, barring the destruction of crop, water wells and infastructure, and barring the rapes of women as described and evidenced in Gerard Chailand's ''The Art of War in World History''.

In comparison the Christian armies raped and pillaged all round them. Check out the Internet Medieval Sourcebook here. Internet History Sourcebooks

The Muslims littered conquered nations with schools, libraries, and social welfare, as per Medieval Sourcebook and other books, among them Patricia Crones Columbia University Press Publication ''God's Rule - Government and Islam''.


Lastly, about 45% of American Muslims are scientifically literate and believe evolution is the best explanation for the diversification of life. That's the same as America as a whole, about 45% of all Americans think evolution is the best explanation. Barely 20% of American Christians believe so. Muslims historically, did much more to contribute to scientific progress than hinder it as the Christian Church has done.

It's really only in the last 100 years (during the oppression, manipulation and exploitation of Muslim nations) wherein there has been a massive surge in Muslim violence. Historically, by and large, they were a more hospitable, progressive and humane crowd than Christians were.

Exceptions exist, of course.
 
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Oct 30, 2014
1,150
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0
#50
Unlike you, I understand the bible and Christian worldview and Islam and those documents which comprise the epistemology of Islam so I'll explain.

We're not anti-Muslim, we're anti-Islam.

In other words, we fully understand that Islam is a false religious cult fabricated by a disgruntled young man who retreated into a cave to sulk because his tribe's leaders rejected him for leadership due to him being weak and unbalanced; however, this doesn't equate to us hating or condemning Muslims though we understand how dangerous people deceived by a false religious cult as violent and anti-Christian as Islam are to both non-Muslims and even other Muslims and, in fact, entire societies and the world at large.

So yes, we completely repudiate and reject Islam. But no, we don't hate or condemn Muslims though we understand quite well that they have been deceived by a dangerous and anti-Christian worldview and pose a clear and present danger to non-Muslims and non-Muslims nations in either a passive preparation role or an active terrorist role.

I hope you find this helpful.
70 million in the Hindu Kush is a ridiculous number. Timur Lane wasn't even a Muslim, either. ABout 2 million can be historically verified, and that still brings the historical tally of deaths in Christian wars and democides to one about seven times that of Muslim atrocities.

As for extremism, between 1980 and 2005 Muslim extremists accounted for 6% of terrorist attacks. Jews accounted for 7%.

Christian (or 'Christian Countries') conquests, factionalist skirmishes and Democides:

The Gothic Wars, the Reconquista, The Crusades, The Hundred Years War, The Guerres de Religion, The Dutch Revolt, The Thirty Years War, The Second Northern War, The Russian Circassian War, The French Revolutionary Wars, The Napoleonic Wars, The Venezuelan War, Menelik's Ethiopian Conquest, The Mexican Revolution, The First World War, The Russian Civil War, The Second World War, The Indochena Wars, Korean War, Vietnam War, The Second Congo War, The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, The Russian Democides, The American Slave Trade, The Amerindian Genocide, Carribean Slaves, The British Empire, The Amazonian Rubber Democides, The Mexican Democides, The Holocaust, The Inquisitions --- OVER 210,000,000 deaths.

vs

The same by Muslims

TimurLane's conquests, Aurangzeb's Conquests, the Nigerian Civil War, The Iran Iraq war, The Second Sudanese Civil war, The Afghan Civil War, The Iranian Democides, The Ottoman Democides, Arab Slave Trade, The Pakistani Democides, The Iraqi Democides, The Sudanese Democide of the Christians, Dinka and Nuba, The Iraq and Afghan wars -- less than 30,000,000 deaths.

In case you can't count, Christian countries' wars or democides account for nearly 7 times that of Muslims' throughout history.
 
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A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#51
You're a wellspring of false assertions. Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] Other authors of the period concur. The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”

And Timur was but one factor but you can't even get him right. Timur was a devout Muslim, especially in his later years, who referred to himself as the Sword of Islam and forcefully converted nearly all the Borjigin leaders to Islam during his lifetime. Specifically he founded what became the Sunni Muslim Persianate Timurid dynasty.

And you need to get a larger calculator because those FBI percentages are only for U.S. soil. Let's look at the worldwide statistics. The Institute for Economics & Peace (IEP) found in 2013 that found more than 80 percent of deaths from terrorist acts were concentrated in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, and Syria. India, Somalia, Yemen, the Philippines, and Thailand and almost solely perpetuated by Muslims noting, “Over the last decade, the increase in terrorism has been linked to radical Islamic groups whose violent theologies have been broadly taught.”

And your nonsensical "democide list" had me belly laughing. It's already completely refuted. But a man has to eat and can't spend all his time correcting an anti-Christian historically ignorant screeding atheist.

I think I'll have a steak with ketchup on it for that's about as "bloodthirsty" as this Christian gets unless his life or some innocent's life is in danger. Lol.


70 million in the Hindu Kush is a ridiculous number. Timur Lane wasn't even a Muslim, either. ABout 2 million can be historically verified, and that still brings the historical tally of deaths in Christian wars and democides to one about seven times that of Muslim atrocities.

As for extremism, between 1980 and 2005 Muslim extremists accounted for 6% of terrorist attacks. Jews accounted for 7%.

Christian (or 'Christian Countries') conquests, factionalist skirmishes and Democides:

The Gothic Wars, the Reconquista, The Crusades, The Hundred Years War, The Guerres de Religion, The Dutch Revolt, The Thirty Years War, The Second Northern War, The Russian Circassian War, The French Revolutionary Wars, The Napoleonic Wars, The Venezuelan War, Menelik's Ethiopian Conquest, The Mexican Revolution, The First World War, The Russian Civil War, The Second World War, The Indochena Wars, Korean War, Vietnam War, The Second Congo War, The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, The Russian Democides, The American Slave Trade, The Amerindian Genocide, Carribean Slaves, The British Empire, The Amazonian Rubber Democides, The Mexican Democides, The Holocaust, The Inquisitions --- OVER 210,000,000 deaths.

vs

The same by Muslims

TimurLane's conquests, Aurangzeb's Conquests, the Nigerian Civil War, The Iran Iraq war, The Second Sudanese Civil war, The Afghan Civil War, The Iranian Democides, The Ottoman Democides, The Pakistani Democides, The Iraqi Democides, The Sudanese Democide of the Christians, Dinka and Nuba, The Iraq and Afghan wars -- less than 30,000,000 deaths.

In case you can't count, Christian countries' wars or democides account for nearly 7 times that of Muslims' throughout history.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#52
My Christian beloved, when you see such individuals understand that they are "darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart" (Ephesians 4:18).

They "having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity" (Ephesians 4:19).

Such are not here for truth seeking or to find God. They are here to rage against God and His church (which is you and I).

As King David said so many centuries ago moved by God's Spirit:

"O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them. Why did the heathen rage and people devise futile things?" (Acts 4:25).

They are deceived, carnal, spiritually unregenerate people who hammer away with all their might from what ultimately is a philosophical position of utter meaninglessness.

After careful examination of your own life, you may judge their behavior. But, never condemn them for final judgment of every person is the sole domain of Creator God.

Who knows? After spending much time and effort railing against God and attacking His Word and His people, they may have an epiphany or experience God's supernatural kingdom in some manner (dream, healing miracle, prophesy that comes true, etc...) or find themselves in a position of utter desperation and hopelessness and turn to God and finally find Him.

But understand, that if such ones stay their course and die in their present state, this is as close to heaven as they're ever going to get in their unregenerate state of enmity against God and His people.

I pity them as they come here to rage instead of to share in our love, joy, and peace (which is in my heart right now as I type this) and gain the knowledge of God and the eternal security that comes with the spiritual regeneration of God's down payment in advance of eternity.

Peace to the beloved and may the joy of the Lord be your strength :).
 
M

mikem

Guest
#53
I haven't noticed the Muslims on here "raging" as much as the so called Christians have been. As I have stated, in this thread or another, I am a Christian. I do disagree with the Muslim religion. But I also, BECAUSE of my Christian faith, respect any Muslim's right to be treated fairly, justly, and respectfully. I, personally, believe that many, if not most, of the people who call themselves Christians on this site should read a bit more of their Bibles, pray, and examine their own hearts - and maybe ask God to soften their own hearts - before continuing to post here.

One more point and then I may be done here:
Whether religious, political, or whatever, if your goal is to change or influence the hearts and minds of others, if you bash them, lambaste them, insult them, attack them, or slight them, they are very unlikely to listen, let alone agree with you.
If you approach them with kindness and show them respect, understanding, and love, they are more likely to listen, if not agree with you.
This is a verifiable theory, put in practice by many people who have successfully influenced the hearts and minds of masses - Jesus is a good example, I think.

So, if you want to follow Christ. If you want to pursue any of this thread because of a sense of urgency placed on you by the Bible, when it tells us to evangelize or bring God to people - maybe you ought to do it in the way that has been shown to you by Jesus, and not in the ways that you are led to by your own pride.
Some of you say Islam is evil, or demonic, etc. I say pride is evil, and I challenge any of you to read the Bible - the source of out religious fervor - to find argument with that. If you can't, I invite you to swallow your pride and try to walk more in the footsteps of Christ.

-Mike
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#54
My last post was directed at the behavior of those who come here for the purpose of railing against God, His Word, His church, etc... and rarely, if ever, deviating from that behavior. In my experience, they are usually the young new atheist crowd (not to be confused with the older intellectual and more philosophical variety) and not Muslims though I have seen a few Muslims spawn here and militantly engage in that behavior too until admin is forced to ban them for breaking the forum rules.

Certainly God Himself guides and empowers us with His Word and Spirit and your approach comports with both in context, of course, with ALL of scripture meaning that by all means show them love and Christian charity with the caveat that you don't facilitate their evil, participate in it, nor ignore the propagation of misinformation by such people for to do so is against scripture and Christ's Will for this world (Matthew 6:10) noting that only in the Christian worldview is saving truth revealed by God Himself through both special revelation and general revelation.

"Like a trampled spring and a polluted well Is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked" -Proverbs 25:26.

When a Christian neglects to assert themselves before those who seek to malign and destroy God's Church and Word in the world, they are as useless to society as a spring that has been defiled by mud stirred up or extraneous matter introduced to make drinking water unserviceable.

The mouth of the righteous should be "a well of life" (Proverbs 10:11), wholesome, refreshing, helpful; yet with conduct consistent and straightforward in the fearless upholding of what's true and right (Isaiah 51:12, etc.), and uncompromising in opposing sin.

When such a man, for fear, or favour, or weakness, or weariness, or deception yields to the wicked he compromises God's truth in the world and no longer makes a stand for truth and purity and virtue. He loses his high character and lowers his own spiritual nature. It is this moral cowardice which Christ so sternly rebukes in (Matthew 10:33), "Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

Some have assumed that the gnome is concerned with a good man's fall into misfortune owing to the machinations of sinners; but in this case the comparison loses its force; such persecution would not disturb the purity or lower the character of the righteous man; it would rather enhance his good qualities, give occasion for their exercise and development, and therefore could not be described as fouling a pure spring.

Don't be deceived beloved of God, whether or not you want to be or not; you were born into a cosmic spiritual war that is manifesting real time in this world. So put on your holy armor and take up the sword of God's Word and wield it effectively. Don't be deceived. If you give way before the wicked, you are acting as a polluted well that gives way before the wicked in the world. Know there is a season for all things friend (Ecclesiastes 3): "A time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace." May God bless you with the wisdom to know when to do what. Peace.


I haven't noticed the Muslims on here "raging" as much as the so called Christians have been. As I have stated, in this thread or another, I am a Christian. I do disagree with the Muslim religion. But I also, BECAUSE of my Christian faith, respect any Muslim's right to be treated fairly, justly, and respectfully. I, personally, believe that many, if not most, of the people who call themselves Christians on this site should read a bit more of their Bibles, pray, and examine their own hearts - and maybe ask God to soften their own hearts - before continuing to post here.

One more point and then I may be done here:
Whether religious, political, or whatever, if your goal is to change or influence the hearts and minds of others, if you bash them, lambaste them, insult them, attack them, or slight them, they are very unlikely to listen, let alone agree with you.
If you approach them with kindness and show them respect, understanding, and love, they are more likely to listen, if not agree with you.
This is a verifiable theory, put in practice by many people who have successfully influenced the hearts and minds of masses - Jesus is a good example, I think.

So, if you want to follow Christ. If you want to pursue any of this thread because of a sense of urgency placed on you by the Bible, when it tells us to evangelize or bring God to people - maybe you ought to do it in the way that has been shown to you by Jesus, and not in the ways that you are led to by your own pride.
Some of you say Islam is evil, or demonic, etc. I say pride is evil, and I challenge any of you to read the Bible - the source of out religious fervor - to find argument with that. If you can't, I invite you to swallow your pride and try to walk more in the footsteps of Christ.

-Mike
 
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AgeofKnowledge

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#55
For clarity, change the second paragraph of my last post to read:

"Certainly God Himself guides and empowers us with His Word and Spirit and your approach comports with both in context, of course. Meaning, that it must comport with ALL of scripture. So by all means show them love and Christian charity with the caveat that you don't facilitate their evil, lies, and misinformation; participate in them; nor ignore their propagation for to do so is against scripture and Christ's Will for this world (Matthew 6:10) noting that only in the Christian worldview is saving truth revealed by God Himself through both special revelation and general revelation."