Praise then Worship
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For the most part the disciples wrote their gospel accounts from personal experience - first hand accounts. This is what I now write.
My wife and I were saved in Oct 1972. I was baptised in the Holy Spirit about 2 weeks later confirmed with speaking in tongues. Now onto the church service pattern.
The body gathered twice on sunday and again on wed. There was a prayer room just off the sanctuary and several gathered to pray prior to the service. These prayers were mostly to break through into what is better called spiritual worship rather than praise or high praise. Scripture reference Hebrews 12 22-24 which shows the saints that have passed on are seeing the Father and giving worship because they actually see HIM. "'to the spirits of just men made perfect." I think this is the place that has been called 'high praise' but is actually spiritual worship.
We would sing fairly short songs mostly scripture with usually a 2 to 3 repeat. Then the congregation would move into individual / corporate worship. This would last maybe 2 to 5 minutes. The manifest presence of GOD was usually very heavy. Some shouting, some clapping hands, some tamborines. Then followed a silence of several minutes as we waited before the Lord waiting to see if He would speak to us through prophecy. At that time prophecy did not mean foretelling the future but "for exhortation edification or comfort." (1Cor 14:3). The entire praise/worship period was led my the Holy Spirit. We sang what He led us to sing and quit when He led us to. Sometimes there were 'words of knowledge' and/or words of wisdom'
We had only a piano and organ as instruments and they were off the platform out of sight.We also had only one person at the pulpit to maintain order. The worship leader was almost invisible. Very little stuff was on stage which are actually distractions to entering into spiritual worship.
There seems to be a place in worship were our worship here on earth mixes with the worship of the saints in heaven and a very strong flow of the Holy Spirit happens. They worship in fact because they can see whom they worship while we worship in faith.
When leaving the church I carried that manifest presence with me and it lasted several days. We went back on wed night for a fresh filling. That presence seems to have a liquid attribute that sort of fades - at least for me.
Living at this level will bring spiritual opposition. Our enemy hates this level of danger to what he calls his. So if you seek to go to this level - be ready for push back. Also be comforted that as Jesus told the woman at the well "The Father seeks those that will worship Him in Spirit and in truth.' We will have protection from the Father as we travel this road. Perhaps a comparison of an armed navy seal versus a boy scout with a pocket knife is good when walking in spiritual worship.
My wife and I were saved in Oct 1972. I was baptised in the Holy Spirit about 2 weeks later confirmed with speaking in tongues. Now onto the church service pattern.
The body gathered twice on sunday and again on wed. There was a prayer room just off the sanctuary and several gathered to pray prior to the service. These prayers were mostly to break through into what is better called spiritual worship rather than praise or high praise. Scripture reference Hebrews 12 22-24 which shows the saints that have passed on are seeing the Father and giving worship because they actually see HIM. "'to the spirits of just men made perfect." I think this is the place that has been called 'high praise' but is actually spiritual worship.
We would sing fairly short songs mostly scripture with usually a 2 to 3 repeat. Then the congregation would move into individual / corporate worship. This would last maybe 2 to 5 minutes. The manifest presence of GOD was usually very heavy. Some shouting, some clapping hands, some tamborines. Then followed a silence of several minutes as we waited before the Lord waiting to see if He would speak to us through prophecy. At that time prophecy did not mean foretelling the future but "for exhortation edification or comfort." (1Cor 14:3). The entire praise/worship period was led my the Holy Spirit. We sang what He led us to sing and quit when He led us to. Sometimes there were 'words of knowledge' and/or words of wisdom'
We had only a piano and organ as instruments and they were off the platform out of sight.We also had only one person at the pulpit to maintain order. The worship leader was almost invisible. Very little stuff was on stage which are actually distractions to entering into spiritual worship.
There seems to be a place in worship were our worship here on earth mixes with the worship of the saints in heaven and a very strong flow of the Holy Spirit happens. They worship in fact because they can see whom they worship while we worship in faith.
When leaving the church I carried that manifest presence with me and it lasted several days. We went back on wed night for a fresh filling. That presence seems to have a liquid attribute that sort of fades - at least for me.
Living at this level will bring spiritual opposition. Our enemy hates this level of danger to what he calls his. So if you seek to go to this level - be ready for push back. Also be comforted that as Jesus told the woman at the well "The Father seeks those that will worship Him in Spirit and in truth.' We will have protection from the Father as we travel this road. Perhaps a comparison of an armed navy seal versus a boy scout with a pocket knife is good when walking in spiritual worship.
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We know that Paul was stoned at Lystra. While there is not agreement on whether of not he was actually dead I think he was. Consider Paul’s writing in 2Cor 12 1-4. Being directed by the Holy Spirit with his writing, he was not allowed to say he was the one who went and saw heaven. It is usually accepted that it was in fact Paul. Further support is given in 2Cor 5 6-8 - especially verse 8. Why was Paul " confident " that absent from the body is to be present with the Lord? Because he had already been there where the Lord is.
Moving from the 2 Cor 12 verses to Hebrews 12 22-24. I submit that the author of Hebrew was Paul and that he hid his authorship because he revealed what he had seen and heard what is referenced in 2 Cor 12 1-4. It was necessary to hide himself as the author else he become puffed up with pride and so forth. It was needful that the information in both passages come out and just as necessary that Paul stay humble.
Paul actually saw the places mentioned in the Hebrews passage and heard what the living beings said and sang. The critical part of this passage for what I write is the last part of verse 23. "...and to the spirits of just men made perfect." These " spirits of just men" are humans that have died and are now in heaven. They worship the Father because they can see Him as He is.
It is important to now that in verse 22 the verb is present tense. We are already there in the spirit.
Based on the Hebrews scriptures, there is a place in our worship here on this earth where our worship mixes to a point that the realized presence of the Father flows from His throne down to and through us if we are in tune / harmony with those 'perfect spirits'. That flow of love, joy, peace might not be as strong as what is going on in heaven yet it much stronger than what we usually have in churches today.
Moving from the 2 Cor 12 verses to Hebrews 12 22-24. I submit that the author of Hebrew was Paul and that he hid his authorship because he revealed what he had seen and heard what is referenced in 2 Cor 12 1-4. It was necessary to hide himself as the author else he become puffed up with pride and so forth. It was needful that the information in both passages come out and just as necessary that Paul stay humble.
Paul actually saw the places mentioned in the Hebrews passage and heard what the living beings said and sang. The critical part of this passage for what I write is the last part of verse 23. "...and to the spirits of just men made perfect." These " spirits of just men" are humans that have died and are now in heaven. They worship the Father because they can see Him as He is.
It is important to now that in verse 22 the verb is present tense. We are already there in the spirit.
Based on the Hebrews scriptures, there is a place in our worship here on this earth where our worship mixes to a point that the realized presence of the Father flows from His throne down to and through us if we are in tune / harmony with those 'perfect spirits'. That flow of love, joy, peace might not be as strong as what is going on in heaven yet it much stronger than what we usually have in churches today.
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what happens when we get to spiritual worship
hebrews 12 22-24
the first 3 things listed are places, the next 5 listed are living beings the last is 'the blood' which i do not understand at this point and will not comment on.
As we ascend to true spiritual worship and get there in spirit, our praise blends with
1. ' an innumerable company of angles'
2. 'the general assembly and church of the firstborn
3. 'to GOD the judge of all
4. 'to the spirits of just men made perfect'
5. 'and to Jesus
6. 'to the blood of sprinkling
The next items 5 are living beings.( I did not feel comfortable not listing 'the blood of the sprinkling" nor do i understand why at this point of writing
hebrews 12 22-24
the first 3 things listed are places, the next 5 listed are living beings the last is 'the blood' which i do not understand at this point and will not comment on.
As we ascend to true spiritual worship and get there in spirit, our praise blends with
1. ' an innumerable company of angles'
2. 'the general assembly and church of the firstborn
3. 'to GOD the judge of all
4. 'to the spirits of just men made perfect'
5. 'and to Jesus
6. 'to the blood of sprinkling
The next items 5 are living beings.( I did not feel comfortable not listing 'the blood of the sprinkling" nor do i understand why at this point of writing
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example of liquid property of GOD'S presence
2kings 13;21
When a member of a robber gang died other members threw his body into a grave where the bones of Elisha were. On contact the robber came back to life. Elisha had been dead for quite a while as only his bones were left. Elisha asked for and received a double portion of annointing from Elijah and that annointing remained long after Elisha died.
When we enter and leave the manifest presence, that liquid attribute of GODs spirit that has been absorbed within us goes with us.
tangient - While the robber was dead where was his soul.? Had to be somewhere. Either Abraham’s bosom in the heart of the earth or hell. What did he have to say after being brought back from either place?
2kings 13;21
When a member of a robber gang died other members threw his body into a grave where the bones of Elisha were. On contact the robber came back to life. Elisha had been dead for quite a while as only his bones were left. Elisha asked for and received a double portion of annointing from Elijah and that annointing remained long after Elisha died.
When we enter and leave the manifest presence, that liquid attribute of GODs spirit that has been absorbed within us goes with us.
tangient - While the robber was dead where was his soul.? Had to be somewhere. Either Abraham’s bosom in the heart of the earth or hell. What did he have to say after being brought back from either place?